Was it something I said? Probably not.

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

Andy Knell — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:15:23 GMT

The mainstream model of planner, account men and bottled creative may work fine for the P & G's of this world but creativity is progressively being beaten down and constricted. With the current economic conditions, clients are being presented the ultimate scapegoat to play it safe in 09.

The sound of revolution is on the wind and its blowing this way.

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

Amod Munga — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 12:18:47 GMT

"Never mind what we say - how can we just do something really cool and get other people to do the talking - preferably about us."

That should be the philosophy that underpins all marketing ideas.

I agree that planning can get in the way of the execution of what might be a killer innovation. Sometimes it's better to make like Tom Cruise in Risky Business and "say 'what the hell' and just go for it."

Not to say planning doesn't have its place, but even planners need to sit back once in a while and let the creatives take the reins. More than likely it won't affect their job-security at all.

PS: Why just wifi in churches? Hit the mosques and synagogues too.

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

The Ginger Man — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:38:14 GMT

Oh come on. Are we bashing planners here or not?

Planners are some of my best friends too. The kind of people who have worked out a way to make a lot of money yet remain largely unaccountable are generally quite clever and entertaining. People you'd like to have a beer with. But the fact is they are a luxury.

You need someone to face the client and sell the stuff, you need someone to work out the layout or build the website, you need someone to buy the space (or organise the appearance of the scam in the Borneo Post).

It's nice to have, but you don't actually need someone, or an entire department, to cool hunt for eight hours a day and then produce a brief that, by your argument, is probably best ignored until the work is finished.

We marginalise the craft of planning by relegating it to a post-rationalising role. That is inescapable. But as you say, it’s what happens.

Further to that I would argue the good creative people and good account service people can probably manage the planning/brief writing/post-rationalising side of things quite well themselves thank you very much, with very little impact on the vast majority of the creative output. This also dove-tails quite well with the anti-silo argument.

Dedicated planning (everyone does it really), it strikes me is a kind of poor man's, or rich agency's, version of real gut experience. Give me a toughened twenty-year veteran suit who knows their stuff and a similarly experienced creative over a twenty something, t-shirt wearing planner any day. There's simply no comparison.

I could go on but a far more articulate argument along these lines has already been made in the last few posts.

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

Rory Sutherland — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:04:40 GMT

I don't have the slightest issue with Planners, who are in many cases more valuable than anyone else in the agency.

What is problematic is the assumption that a planning approach to a problem need necessarily precede a creative one every goddamn time!.

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

Desmond Bateman — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:07:55 GMT

That would explain why Sir Martin has a vested interest in Mindshare, Mediacom & Mediaedge:CIA. Clearly planning makes no money. Also, if planning is so rubbish why are creative agencies like Lowe & BBH investing in recruiting planning talent for their clients?

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

The Ginger Man — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:30:36 GMT

The most successful advertising practitioner in Australia, and the man who showed Sir Martin how much money you could really make in this game, John Singleton, has rarely had much time for planners. As they say at the track, "Follow the money."

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

Desmond Bateman — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:46:37 GMT

Rory, as always love the blog. I do take issue with the planner vs creative debate though by Frank. Lets face it it all really depends on whether or not you have a good planner/creative or a bad planner/creative. I've seen both and when either refuse to work with the other we get no good ideas. I'm still amazed that people in the creative arena want to build websites that consumers couldn't care less about! And planners that always fall back on deals so refuse to think differently.

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

Harry Clive — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 00:53:40 GMT

Expertly written and a hugely intriguing debate. From my experience, those who were around when planning was not a separate discipline but engaged in and understood by creatives and management alike; find it puzzling why this came about.

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

Rory Sutherland — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 00:00:01 GMT

I forgot what the * was supposed to be about now. When I remember, I'll add it below.

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

Susan Imgrund — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:56:53 GMT

...or, to quote Bananarama & Fun Boy Three c.1982, "It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it...that's what gets results." Something we should all remember. I'm also looking for the *

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

Frank Poole — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:24:29 GMT

Have been following this compelling 'Creatives vs. Planners' battle on Brand Republic since Rory's first post on the subject and I am now more convinced than ever that we don't need planners! Great post Rory!

re: Was it something I said? Probably not.

Philip Smith — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:51:49 GMT

I'm still looking for the *. Am I missing something? (great post, as ever)