Upstream media thinking

re: Upstream media thinking

gotnoteef — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:37:14 GMT

aaaaaahhhhhhhh Dave - now you're at it - without even a whistle or a hum.

got a great quote stuck to my desk divide - "Originality is great... but plagiarism is quicker"

re: Upstream media thinking

Dave Trott — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:50:45 GMT

Gotnoteef,

Do you notice how The Scissor Sisters ripped that off for 'I Don't Feel Like Dancing' ?

re: Upstream media thinking

gotnoteef — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:45:26 GMT

That's a nice idea Bob - ipods are going to limit the audience, but there's nowt like a catchy tune to get in your head and pester you all day, so those who aren't plugged in are the primed to have their ears mugged.

I regularly find myself humming the tune to kids TV programmes whilst I wait in line at the supermarket. I also enjoy a fun office game whereby I sing, hum or whistle something that is both catchy and sh*t / annoying and then listen as colleagues pick it up and run with it - partuclar favourite this week is Leo Sayer - you make me fell like dancin'.

re: Upstream media thinking

Bob Ashwood — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:04:38 GMT

On the subject of buskers playing out ads.

I agree tube tunnels are too cluttered to clock everything you pass. But isn't that the competitive point that forces better visual communication? Agreed doesn't happen that often. Especially film posters. Most seem to be designed by the same art director. Why do they ALL bother to list every single contributor from 'starring' to 'directed by' in an over-condensed (and totally illegible font)? THe busker concpet dovetails nicely into what Rory Sutherland and I exchanged thoughts on recently. I lamented the passing of the original jingle. We can all sing them word perfect. WHAT IF...buskers were paid to sing jingles? I bet we'd all join in. I'm gonna start an agency called Brand Buskers. Want to join me? Altogether now.....A million housewives everyday ....A finger of fudge is just enough .....Do the Shake'n'Vac and put ......Try the taste of Martini, the most .....You'll wonder where the yellow went when you....

It's so crazy it just might work. Music in the underground is a far more intrusive medium than poster. Until we get too used to it and switch off. But that could take years. Then you'd have people giving away brand sponsored earplugs. As for product placement, who will be the first to get their product name and strapline seemlessly laced into the hook of the next Gary Barlow penned Take That single?

Bob Ashwood Creative

re: Upstream media thinking

Dave Trott — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 08:29:44 GMT

Thanks Kevin,

That really gave me a great start to the day.

re: Upstream media thinking

Kevin Gordon — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:42:19 GMT

Hi Dave,

Many thanks for your compliment.

Hi Michael,

I've just read your comment.

That's an incredible compliment which I could never possibly accept.

To set the record straight, I'd never compare myself to Dave in a million years, and I'd never even think of it. It would be like comparing Batman with a Busker.

The thing that makes Batman great is his willingness to share his knowledge with everyone for the greater good. So many people take from this indusrty, but you can count the fingers on your hands of those who give anything back.

I read 'How to get your first job in advertising' after being in the game for 10 years, working for agencies being made to do painfully rubbish ads. I knew the ads were rubbish, they knew the ads were rubbish, and most people at the time went down the pub at lunch time as the only means of escape from a perilously frustrating life in advertising. Then along came Dave's book.

It was like finding The Dead Sea Scrolls, that was how important it was to read this book. I used to read it over and over again on the train, at home, and in bed to drum into my brain what advertising was truly about to help me cast out the devilish noise of the majority who would make every excuse under the sun why this ad or that ad didn't work or couldn't be sold like that.

To all the young creatives Dave was (and still is) like Clint Eastwood stepping into a dysfunctional town called Adland shooting all the "Punmen" with one silver bullet. It created uproar. Suddenly everyone had to think about what they were doing. Nobody could be lazy any more, because they knew if they became compacent, they might just get a silver bullet right between their own eyes.

I knew Dave did a lot for D&AD, but it was not until just recently, I realised the full extent of his work for D&AD. It's something he talks very little about. The amount of effort and personal sacrifice required for such an undertaking is enormous, yet he tirelessly helps others because he is passionate about this industry.

Then there's the Chip Shop Awards, a scheme created to free advertising from the shackles of restrictions we all suffer day in day out that stifle creativity.

I ran my own agency for four years, so I know what it is like to run and build an agency from nothing. I used to switch off at about 4pm on a Sunday and relax. This is enough work in itself. To then spend most nights teaching students, some of them as thick as me, and get up and go visit a client the following morning with whatever headaches clients can throw at you, and deal with it shows loyalty and passion beyond all imaginable reason. That's what I call THE RIGHT STUFF.

For myself, I'm happy just to be able tjust o write and contribute, and say a BIG THANK YOU to the person who truly deserves it. Namely, Dave Trott.

I remember there was a profile article in Campaign once about Mr Gold. He said something like: "I get really excited when Dave comes into my office with an ad so outrageous I ask myself how the hell am I going to sell that?' It gets the adrenalin going and gets me really excited!" GGT was a fantastic combination of top talent.

Nobody said it, but everyone knew it.

re: Upstream media thinking

Michael — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:15:11 GMT

Dave Trott wrote:

Product placement and sponsorship kind of overlap a bit here, don't they?

I think maybe product placement and “spokesman” overlap even a little bit more. And I am trying to think past celebrity to "narrow-cast provider" as the person using/holding/exemplifying the product.

- Sponsorship is the CNN website “brought to you” by Facebook, with appropriate intrusive logo and ad placement.

- Product Placement is a CNN bringing live pictures of the Iranian demonstrations to you via Facebook.

- Sponsorship is Ted.com “brought to you” by Apple, with appropriate intrusive logo and ad placement.

- Product Placement is a speaker at the TED Conference using an Apple laptop on stage.

Kevin Gordon wrote:

...or maybe it's better just to look out of the window and stare into space after a hard day's work.

In between Harvard station and Central Square station on the Red Line here in Boston, there is an advertisement in the form of a zoetrope. The speed of the train makes the individual frames look animated without the use of strobe lights. The sudden appearance in the dark tunnel of backlit “animation” in the windows of the train is still a new and surprising experience to many riders, and inevitably cause a stir (particularly with the kids).

Kevin Gordon wrote:

We already have live posters in the underground. Imagine if that could be turned into a cross track cinema experience. Wouldn't it be funny if everyone stayed on the platform to watch the film for free, or even a small fee, or it could be sponsored by an advertiser. it would be one way of regulating the number of people traveling at certain times, and...a guaranteed target audience. Higher numbers in public places also bring down crime figures.

Far out! Kev, you are becoming the 2nd main reason I’m tuning into Dave’s blog regularly now. Great ideas here, and just plain fun to play with this. Can you clarify what you mean by “live posters” though. Just wondering. And, my musician’s background once again comes to the fore, is there a sound track to these hypothetical cross track cinema experiences, or are they silent films?

I imagine these cinema are in serial form, maybe extensions of more established mainstream media series – like the podcast “mini-sodes” various TV series are already producing to lure eyes to their websites.

And while we are at it: if there is a soundtrack it might be available through commuter’s mp3/pda portable. The same with the podcast. Both add-ons could, like you say, sell sponsorship space. Better yet, to place the product within the content of the cinema.

And while we are at it; what is in the ears of said commuters? Do you guys use Pandora in the UK to narrowcast radio to your mp3 players? Very popular here, and as yet unpolluted with intrusive sponsorship.

re: Upstream media thinking

Dave Trott — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:11:35 GMT

Kevin,

I think freelance buskers acting out scripts is a great idea.

I read someone tried it on stage in the West End a while back, acting out commercials before the play.

Who wouldn't want to see that?

On a separate note, how they do posters on the Tokyo underground is like a big film strip printed on the wall between stations.

As the train passes by it has the effect of moving the pictures before your eyes like a film.

Really rivetting experience and very clever.

re: Upstream media thinking

Kevin Gordon — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:32:24 GMT

How about freelance buskers who act out agency scripts for them?

Sponsoring the Arts in London. helping poor actors scrape afew crumbs.

re: Upstream media thinking

Kevin Gordon — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:02:25 GMT

Hi Dave,

I don't know where the online back page is, but having read the comments and thinking about the many nights I spent waiting for the tube after working late, I wonder how much technolgy will determine what we do and how we are sold to

in the future.

We already have live posters in the underground. Imagine if that could be turned into a crosstrack cinema experience. Wouldn't it be funny if everyone stayed on the platform to watch the film for free, or even a small fee, or it could be sponsored by an advertiser. it would be one way of regulating the number of people travelling at certain times, and...a guaranteed target audience. Higher numbers in public places also bring down crime figures.

From memeory, I think there's something like 4-500 tube stations in London.

200 people on every platform is already 100,000 people. It could work on the Moscow Metro because they have vast underground caverns. It could get a bit hot and claustrophobic on the London Underground...and to think we used to smoke down there at one time! Absolutely appalling.

There could be an underground season for the winter, overground season for the summer, or maybe it's better just to look out of the window and stare into space after a hard day's work.

I still can't get over the amount of information people try to cram into a 60x40 poster on the tube in such a short attention span. It all ends up as SPLUNGE in the brain.

Here's a mental record of a walk up an underground underpass:-

Going down escalator...moving images...interesting...4 messages...which one do I read...oh it's changed....new message.... Quick! read something! What? Anything!

Who is it? oh it's Reuters and Nokia. Something about getting the information as it happens...(Thinks) isn't than CNN's line???? What's this Twitter? Tweaks? What?

Northern line, turn left...Walk

Girl on poster for film? show? moving on... visit london's amazing ...bit of graffiti... oh look there's a busker....sorry no money mate...bold headline too confusing to read....new headline too long to digest....another one, doesn't get to the point...

Bored. Thinks, what am I doing here down this dreadful tunnel of confusion???

oops nearly walked into someone....ooops! someone nearly walked into me....direction Northern line Which way?

Such a complete waste of money.

One massive poster would be so much better.

That's what the London Commuter has to deal with every day to get to work.

There must be a better, more pleasant way to advertise.

re: Upstream media thinking

Dave Trott — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:05:18 GMT

Hi Michael,

Product placement and sponsorship kind of overlap a bit here, don't they?

I thought it was a great idea for BMW to sponsor Ted.com, but it was the wrong brand.

BMW isn't about daring, innovative thinking.

Maybe Toyota Prius, or Smart car, or even Apple.

In the UK maybe M&S or The Independent.

But on the internet it needs to be a big international brand.

And most of those aren't about daring, innovative thinking.

Good to live in the question though.

re: Upstream media thinking

Michael — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:49:37 GMT

Dave; I think this post ventures into some neat conceptual space and has really got your commentators scratching their heads – as evidenced by the lack of comments – and wondering to themselves “Yeah, where the heck are these upstream media headwaters?”

I know it’s got me asking myself “Where is the equivalent ‘outside back page’ of the internet?” “Where is the equivalent ‘outside back page’ of the PDA screen?”

It is no accident that the logos on laptops are upside-down to the owners and face right-side up to those across from them on the train.

But I am thinking IF the primary dynamic here is consumer eyeballs avoiding mainstream advertising – electing instead for electronic, non-advertized media, even at a premium; fast-forwarding or erasing video advertising; opting for narrow-casted information – THEN product placement seems to me to be the premier high-ground marketing space. Advertizing needs to be nonchalant and (seemingly) spontaneous; or risk losing a public well-trained in avoiding advertizing, so that even the best placed ads miss their target. We’ve seen this in movies, TV series, and with your favorite sports clubs. But has anyone seen

- Product placement in literature (Stephen Dedalus holding a Marlboro)?

- Product placement in fine art (Mona Lisa with a Snickers candy bar)?

- Product placement in concert music (Variation on an Oscar Meyer theme)?

I joke. But seriously; getting products into the hands (or on the equivalent of the t-shirts) of the culture makers, those who fashion narrow-casted info, seems to me the best avenue to the ‘outside back page’ of the internet.

Haha! Tough question; no easy answers here sensei.

re: Upstream media thinking

Dave Trott — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:51:54 GMT

Hi Neil,

I agree it's logical.

But creatives usually want big juicy colour spreads for their ads.

And clients want lots of copy, believeing people will stop and read as they're flipping through.

Neither of those things happen on the back.

As you say, when you get the end of the mag you stop and drop it.

50% of the time face down.

The insight was start thinking of the back page as a poster not a press ad.

Big bold graphics seen from a distance.

It may have been obvious to magazine publishers but, so far as I know, they never sold it that way to agencies.

re: Upstream media thinking

Neil Hopkins — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:55:52 GMT

The back page of magazines has always been a premium position in terms of sales - having been an editor in the past I know this as well as any other publishing house.

Not only do you get the crowd effect (other people seeing it while you read) but you also have the fact that when a magazine is discarded on the coffee table, it's often face down. So you have the advert pointing up. It is the ONLY position in the publication that has this unique effect.

So, rather than particularly clever thinking,' surely this is just pure logic???

re: Upstream media thinking

Max Colson — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:15:22 GMT

That post be tight as hell - bespoke media solutions for life fam...